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This episode is sponsored by Nexo.ioCircle and FTX US.

Dan Held is a serial bitcoin entrepreneur, the former head of growth marketing at Kraken and currently an adviser to Trust Machines and other crypto companies. In this discussion, he and NLW talk about the state of crypto narratives, bitcoin maximalism versus bitcoin moderates and why central bank digital currencies are among his top concerns.

Find our guest on Twitter: @danheld

“The Breakdown” is written, produced by and features Nathaniel Whittemore aka NLW, with editing by Rob Mitchell and research by Scott Hill. Jared Schwartz is our executive producer and our theme music is “Countdown” by Neon Beach. Music behind our sponsors today is “War” by Enoch Yang. Image credit: Boris SV/Getty Images, modified by CoinDesk. Join the discussion at discord.gg/VrKRrfKCz8.